Here are some recent pictures taken of our community park on 229th street, Grand Central Park.
Not only is this park a complete eyesore in the community, but it has become so dangerous to any child who might want to play there. The wooden planks that USED to enclose the trash can are now thrown and piled all over the park. The benches are missing the majority of thier wood...and it honeslty looks like a tornado has ripped through the entire area. It is completely unacceptable and unfair to those living in the community. It's unfair to those who take pride in both thier homes and thier neighborhood parks. I guess the next question would be...who is doing all the vandalism? While I am very much aware that there are children from other neighborhoods constantly riding thier bikes and loitering here in Grand Firs, I also know that assuming it is someone else's children is extremely naive. And while it may seem easier to put the blame elsewhere, I have seen the vandalism first hand by many of the youths that I know for a fact live here. There is such a large amount of kids in our neighborhood, and it is damn near impossible to know where each and every child lives. This fact alone makes it almost impossible to pinpoint and follow through with a visit to the parents of the offenders. And yes, I used the word...offenders. So, what do we do? How do we go about fixing this issue? I know of so many parents who are scared to let thier children play at the park. It has become an unsafe enviroment for our younger kids. Bottom line. And it's incredibly unfortunate. Our parks, much like our neighborhood, was intended to be a safe place. So again, who do we hold responsible? Who is going to fix all the damage done? If you know that your kids spend a large amount of time at the parks, ask them what they know. The next time I personally see kids maliciously destroying someone else's property, I will not hesitate to call the police. And I would hope that everyone else will do the same. In all my posts, I try to be diplomatic for fear that I might seem offensive, or come across harshly. But this is ridiculous...I'm hoping this post will spark some sort of insight as to what is going on with the overall lack of respect in our neighborhood when it comes to our younger residents. As always, feedback is always welcomed on these posts.
39 comments:
Louise and I had several conversations about the parks.
We have several alternatives:
1. Have a meeting with all of the children in Grand Firs to explain the fact that they must accept responsibility for their actions and police themselves. We would like them to form a club with officers to monitor the park. If the officers do not prevent future damage to the parks, they need to understand that the parks will be locked until they repair the damage.
2. The parents of the children caught damaging the park will be billed by the HOA for the cost of repairing all of the damage.
3. We believe that it is necessary to install video cameras at the parks to catch the action.
4. I have posted Private Property signs at each gate. They state that trespassers may be prosecuted. I am working with Jim Selden to close the drive thru gates during the week. He still wants them open from noon to 6pm on Saturday and Sunday for the open house. I believe that it is still necessary to install video cameras at each gate.
Fantastic post, Jen. Whoever is responsible should be ashamed of themselves. Like Jen said earlier when we talked, this isn't normal "wear and tear". This is the result of someone going out and using some muscle to intentionally destroy property. When I was a child I certainly had much better things to do. Plus, my parents instilled a "take pride in your property and your community" mentality in me from a young age.
Jen didn't mention it here, but she also observed several kids picking up large rocks (soccer-ball size) and slamming them into the picnic tables.
Jen's right. There are too many kids in the neighborhood for me to keep track of. I don't know who is whose kid, or which kid lives where. So here's what I'll do if/when I see vandalism occurring: I will call the police with an accurate suspect description, so the punk can be tracked down. Vandalism is a crime and honestly, I don't want that crap in my neighborhood.
On a side note: When Jen took me to the park this evening to show me the damage, the kids scattered like flies. Maybe it's time for some parents to start playing "playground duty" at the park. I really think that some adult supervision would be a good idea.
Louise and I also agree - If your child played in the park today. It is part of the parent's responsibility to check the park out each night.
My other thought after seeing the pictures is to lock the park until the kids fess up to that did the damage.
Another thought is to charge each parent that has children that play in the park a special assessment to repair the damage. The children know who is causing the damage.
I think adult supervision would be a great idea. I don't have kids so didn't know this was happening. The blog is a good idea...maybe a neighborhood newsletter would help to get the word out too or a posting on the mail boxes (as long as the posting is taken down within a time frame so we don't trash the mailboxes).
Question? If we have not taken over the association how can we as homeowner's enforce anything? If we are paying our dues where is the support of our HOA and due our dues pay for repair to the parks?
We have the ability to have a special assessment to repair the damage. We just need to do it. We can send a bill to every homeowner. If they do not have any children, they can be exempt from paying the bill. This damage is not part of our annual dues.
Anonymous.. that's what I wonder too. How can we have any say over who pays for the damage? I certainly don't want my dues paying for park damage.
When my husband and I first looked at houses in this neighborhood, we were impressed with the beautiful parks. However, they now look NOTHING like the way they did when we first moved in (Nov 2007).
I had a gathering at my house and a friend took his special needs son to the park. When they returned, I asked "how was the park?" The father replied "we cleaned up a lot of garbage." I was mortified.
That is why I believe that a video camera is the best solution.
I do have children. Five of them in fact. And I recognize that they are not perfect and have made mistakes and will continue to so. I am a parent that is involved with their children and tries to instill a sense of respect and pride in their home and themselves. I had an incident where my children, although they had not broken anything at the park, they were irresponsible and undisciplined in the way in which they were destructively playing with the broken leftovers of someone else. It was brought to our attention and we immediately addressed the issue. I have not heard of any other activity by my children that would lead me to believe they are continuing in this behavior or escalating to the type of destruction I see in the pictures. I will not pay for the destruction of park equipment when my children are not causing the damage. You can not just assume to charge me because I have children. I know that it is difficult these days to live together peacefully respecting everyone's lifestyle. But I try to teach my children that first and foremost, you have no idea of what it's like to live in someone else's shoes. I want to live in a nice neighborhood also, but I don't want to live where others make it miserable because their picture of the American dream is different than yours.
The HOA has the authority to charge a special assessment to ALL homeowners for the damage to the park. We will all pay an equal share. They also have the authority to place a lien on the property for not paying the special assessment. The damage to the park is not considered an operating expense that is payable out of the annual dues.
In reguards to Davina's last comment...
I don't think you should, in any way, feel your children are being accused or even targeted when it comes to addressing the damage at the park.And trust me, the thought of having to pay for repairs for damage you are sure your own children didnt cause seems ridiculous, I know. But in all honesty, all of us as the homeowners in this neighborhood, are infact, responsible for the upkeep of the neighborhood. If you have children who enjoy the ammenities in the neighborhood, it is only logical that when things need repairing, it will be the community, as a whole's...responsibility. This is why the whole issue of taking care of our parks, should have been addressed and taken more seriously, when the issues were as easy to fix, as trash pick-up.
I just can't believe that this is even happening. I do not have any children, but find it such a shame that this is happening at all. Really is sad that whomever is doing this does not care enough about our community to do such a thing. Hope we can all positively get to the bottom of this.
Amy, I can't believe it either. This is the first neighborhood I've lived in where this has been a problem. My son is 16 months and just reaching the age where I can take him to play at a park. However I can't let him play at this park with the hazardous equipement and exposed nails and screws. I am not fixing it, and I am not paying for it.
Whether people want to believe it or not, there are kids residing in this neighborhood who are responsible for at least some of the damage. And as for kids who don't live here, maybe it's time to start telling these kids to go home.
As someone said before, it's hard to know who lives in the neighborhood and who doesn't. Because there are so many youngsters that live in Grand Firs, I never really even know who is who. HMMMM. How can we get to the bottom of this? Definately has to be frustrating to those whith children who now feel they can't allow their kids to safely play in our community parks.
Howdy all- This is a great conversation and it is encouraging to see folks take responsibility for our community. In a previous comment my beautiful wife Davina made a comment related to paying for damage. Her thoughts were specifically addressed to the idea that just those with kids should pay for the park. That is certainly an option, but we respectfully disagree.
We have five children. They've been stopped on two occasions by adults they did not know asking if they did any damage on some other day to some place down the road. I don't know about others, but I teach my children to not talk to strangers. Davina's frustration is based in part by strangers speaking to, and frankly scaring, our children.
We can take responsibility for our neighborhood without creating an uncomfortable place to live. I am all for expressing opinions and concerns, but when it starts driving folks to speak to my children just because they are children, I get concerned. I prefer to think that my friends and neighbors are watching out for the children and not making them feel threatened.
Now, in regard to damage, it is absolutely disrespectful for anyone to intentionally cause damage to community or personal property. That includes purposefully riding bikes through yards and doing damage. We all need to take responsibility for our community. If I didn't want to live in a community, i would have bought the 5 acres and house down the road.
I think if we continue to work together and communicate we will resolve this problem.
Respectfully,
Ryan
I do know that my husband has been one that has asked children (just last night) about damages to the park. I know that it wasn't in anyway threathening tone nor in any manner to scare the children. He did tell the group of kids that there were pictures taken and that some kids were seen in the act. This was not to threaten, but to give them the facts that others have seen and heard not such good behavior. It was intended to try to get to the bottom of what was going onand who was doing it? Asking them to keep there eyes peeled for kids not doing the right things. I really know what you mean about not wanting children to "talk to strangers", however, we (as a family) were riding bikes and we came upon the entire group of kids. My husband didn't drive around preying on small children to yell at or scare them. This isn't the first time that he has had to talk to children in our neighborhood. In the spring, he asked the kids at the bus stop to respect our front entrance.
Again, Ryan If your children were around the other night when Tim addressed the entire group of kids, I apologize if they were scared, but that was not the intent.
Tim and Tricia
I'm happy to see a good discussion going on here.
I was wondering if we should close the park until the damages can be fixed. The exposed (rusty) screws make me nervous, as does the missing planks on the Big Toy. If a child were to get hurt, does anyone know if our neighborhood would be liable? (Jim E, do you know?)
Any ideas about funds? I think most people are against a special assessment. We should try to get the damage fixed ASAP.
Ok, so this evening, Tricia and I went out to the park to collect all the trash and wood laying around, and to our surprise, someone beat us to it! Whoever it was, I personally say "Thank You". This way, children who just happen to be at the park playing with already damaged property, are not being accused of any malicious intent.
Trudy and her daughter cleaned up the park tonight. They had to also use our garbage can. It is sad that it is the 3rd night in a row for this problem.
The Sheriff stopped by tonight to discuss the issue. He recommends installing videos camera in the park. It is a criminal charge to destroy property. They will keep each video on file until the children are identified regardless of where the children live. They will show the video to the parents.
Jim- Was there a lot of litter or further damage...or both? Please tell Trudy and her daughter thank you.
Tim/Tricia- I think the vandalism is especially disconcerting because not only is the damage occurring, but there are safety issues along with an air of friction in the neighborhood. These forums are a good idea.
I also didn't want to imply my kids are perfect..cause they ain't :)... I just get concerned when they come home and tell me people they don't know are talking to them. The adult interactions they had previously were not all that positive.
We've asked our kids to keep an eye out for anyone doing damage. I also look forward to getting to know folks in the neighborhood better.
We live next to the park and have observed many things, but the behavior that I witnessed tonight was above and beyond the unacceptable behavior that has been written about in this blog. I have seen and heard CHILDREN behave badly, cuss, and act in a manner that is worth a reprimand. Apparently, this unacceptable behavior does not have an AGE preference in “our” park.
Please, please, remember that when you are frustrated with the kids in the park, try and take your issues to the parents. As an ADULT, it is totally inappropriate and unacceptable to cuss at, yell at, and intimidate children. I understand the frustration, but please try and use that frustration and energy to solve the problem. Yelling, cussing, intimidation is not the solution to the problem. Also, I understand that there are a lot of kids that use the park and “its hard to know where the kids live”, but if the park is such an issue – then find out where all of the kids live. So, when there is a problem - go and talk to the parents!
I will say that after 2 summers living next to the park, tonight was the worst experience so far.
Brandi Manning
My typo - it was Tory and her daughter that cleaned up the park.
Trudy and Tory,
Thanks for cleaning up the park. That was very thoughtful.
I think that whether we agree with last night's happenings or not, we should try to stick to the following points:
1) Who is going to repair the damage?
2) Who is going to pay for it?
3) Who caused the damage? (I think there are kids who can answer that if their parents talk to them.)
4) How can we prevent further vandalism and property damage?
Repairs to the park need to be handled by the HOA, i.e., Jim Seldon. We as homeowners do not have the right to impose any special assessments for any reason.
Clearly the park will need to be repaired, but the money to do so will need to come from the HOA or from donations ($ or time) given by Grand Firs residents.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for a special assessment when needed, but I am totally against singling out those with children, etc... These parks are considered common areas and thus community areas. Whether or not vandalism, over use, and/or abuse caused these problems, the parks need to have regular maintenance(wood treated, painted, cleaned, etc...). Even the parks that don't get used are starting to look run down.
Also, lets not forget that this issue is not just about homeowners, it also includes renters. As renters, they are not responsible for paying dues or special assessments of any kind. Do we really think the builders are going to pay their assessments??? Is Jim Seldon prepared to place a lean on the builders?
Heck, we don't even know if our HOA has liability insurance to cover the common areas. We don't know what money exists. We can't even enforce our covenants.
As far as I am concerned, this all falls back on Jim Seldon. Without his involvement, I see know way that a special assessment can be enforced.
Lee Zarella
I agree with Lee about not going after people with kids. Ours is only over here every other weekend and hasn't been to the park in a very long time. Why then, should we be responsible for a repair when he's not even been here?
Not sure locking the park would do any good as the fence is easy to climb over. Good luck getting Jim Seldon to help with this situation. I find it difficult to say something when I see it because then they know who I am, where I live and what I drive. If they are tearing up the park and being disrespectful, what is my house or car going to look like if I correct them?
I'm very disappointed with the lack of respect from the children in our neighborhood. I guess a lot has changed since I was a child. I know I'm very tired of not being able to get in or out of my driveway without having to maneuver around a group of kids on bikes, skateboards or just standing in the way. Where are they learning that it is my responsibility to move around and avoid them? When I was young, we moved off the road when a car was coming.
Please go to this link!
http://theinformer-goodkids.blogspot.com/
Im alittle lost for words here. While it is terrific seeing some of the neighborhood kids cleaning the park...Im not understanding the "Not All Kids are Bad" heading on the above blog. Did anyone suggest they all were?
Great effort kids, hopefully it will continue even when someone isn't there to take pictures!
Lee makes a good point. I guess our friend Jim Selden is the person to contact. Maybe there's an insurance policy that can pay for the damage. Who wants to contact him?
You're kidding me, right? Who, in their right mind, would believe the photos in the above blogspot? I can't believe someone would take the time to create such a site. If the children in our neighborhood were like this, the park would not be in the condition that it is in! Let's be real! I'd like to know how much those kids got paid for the clean up, I need their help in my yard. I'm all for Jim Ehnborn putting his foot down and demanding the take over of our association. I believe he may be the only one tough enough to see to it that stuff gets done and rules get followed. Can we not all just play nice together? Are we able to take some responsibility, as adults, for the children we allow to run crazy, and with no supervision, through our streets? Let's all just grow up and be responsible, nice neighbors! I for one am sick and tired of it all!
Mandy and Jen, please don't delete this!
Not all the kids respect the community like those kids, but they got paid nothing they did it to help out so people like you stop saying that not one kid in the neighborhood will make an effort to keep the community nice with out a secret motive!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seriously.. we had a nice discussion going and it's starting to turn ugly. I'm not a fan of the anonymous comment feature for this reason. Jen and I have discussed disabling the anonymous feature before and chose to keep it. Maybe we should re-think the anonymous feature again.
So getting back to the point of fixing the parks.. I emailed Jim Selden to ask for his help. I'm sure it will take him a few days to reply due to the holiday weekend.
Not all the kids respect the community like those kids, but they got paid nothing they did it to help out so people like you stop saying that not one kid in the neighborhood will make an effort to keep the community nice with out a secret motive!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok people I agree with the fact that this conversation is turning ugly, but these children did not get paid a single cent for cleaning up the park, they cleaned up the park so people like the ones marking them selves as anonymous will not shut down the park, put video cameras in, fine people with kids, or get watchgaurds! They want to keep the park open so their siblings and themselves can enjoy a nice clean park and a community that does not blame all the kids for everything!
ok so the fact that four kids ruined the park and two of them did not even live in the neighborhood, the fact is it is not acceptable that many people are saying its all the kids fault, and its not my self and many other people think it is a terrible idea to put in video cameras(there going to ruin them), have people on watch(come on you were all kids once the kids that were doing it are going to tepee the peoples houses), they cleaned the park so there little brothers and sisters would be safe, i would appreciate if the people saying things about the children would stop it is not fair to blame all of the kids if they didnt do it and by the way, three of the kids that cleaned up the park were at chris odel's memorial service that is not acceptable blaming them all for what they didnt commit
I think a couple of you might be getting alittle off topic in some of these postings.
And yes, the point has been made MORE than once about blaming ALL children for the wrong doings of possibly just a couple.So please, stop.It is getting annoying...and it is extremeley repetitive, and at this juncture...unproductive.This post of mine was created to inform, and possibly educate the adults with children who enjoy frequenting the parks.It was never intended to be a sort of "witch trial", and as far as Im aware...noone has accused any specific child, or group of children, as being the "bad ones". It seems like such a waste of time to keep arguing, when noone seems to be arguing with you.Don't you all think? Let's start to use this frustration many of you all have, by doing some positive brainstorming. That is what the blog was intended for...not all this petty back and forth.
Oh, on another note...we get the posts when they are sent...there is no need to post the same comment 2, even three times. Please stop. Thank you.
Okay seriously.. Informer, it's not necessary to pepper the blog with rambling nonsense. We've already deleted 4 comments by you because they re-state the same issues. You chastise those who leave anonymous comments, but you're anonymous yourself.
And Anonymous who left the comment on 9/5 at 3:20pm, your writing makes absolutely no sense. People will take you much more seriously if you stop, slow down, and write a literate paragraph. Thank you.
The sheriff suggested the video cameras in the park. I (along with others) suggested more adult presence at the park. How is adult presence and parent involvement a bad idea? Perhaps it's time for another community meeting to address these issues. The behavior by a few of the people leaving comments is childish. It's okay to disagree, as long as we're all mature about it.
I will talk to Jim Ehnborn about organizing another meeting. He did a great job with the last one, so I think he's the person to organize another.
Thanks to the neighbors who are offering constructive suggestions, ideas and opinions.
This is Michelle McAuley and I live at 8510 229th St Ct E. My three children (most people recognize them as the twins and their big brother) use the entire neighborhood to play ... not just the park. I spoke to my children about respect for community property, neighbors, and their own stuff. I understand completely if you chose to not get involved, but if it was one of my kids who did the park damage, or if you see them in the future being disrespectful ... I implore you to come and tell me! I know last fall the twins got into trouble with their air soft guns and they were disciplined appropriately ... this summer I believe they have behaved responsibly with their toys. I would hate to think my children are making others -- kids or adults -- uncomfortable in the neighborhood and if they are I need to know about it! On the flip side ... if my kids happen to be polite and respectful and you notice positve behavior an "atta boy" would be appreciated as well. I do believe it takes a village to raise a child, but am willing to be the one held responsible for my parenting.
Thanks
Michelle
Thank you for your positive response, Michelle...and yes, I am familiar with your boys:)I think you make an excellent point about wanting to know if your kids are doing something they probably shouldn't be doing. I myself have 2 boys and would absolutely want to know if they were in any way being destructive or disrespectful.And you are right...kids are going to get into trouble here and there, they are kids. Its inevitable! And why I believe so greatly in disciplining when a situation deems necessary, I too feel that acknowledging good behavior from our kids, its also as important!
Thanks again for reading, and responding constructively to this particular post.
Mandy and jen I am deeply sorry to you and anyone else for
1. taking up valuble blog space
2. re-posting words
3. upseting anyone on the blog
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